AG writes: I really agree with..er..me about the technology thing. I wonder , sence it's true that ..
“We can’t let Earth technology run ahead of our ability to use it wisely. We can’t let Earth culture be overwhelmed with alien contact until it’s ready for it."
Not without some loss of close-to-out-worldness in the stories. It’s the same reason all those alien invasions and superheroics haven’t much altered the course of the world over in mainstream comics.
What does that mean abot Starcross, the interdimentional port in Andy's story?
I guess that’s one for Andy to address. I’m assuming it’s very closely controlled, or even that all that happens in the near future and isn’t quite there yet.
HAH! Nitzs was down to a tee! I love Ebony's plan.
She has a style of her own.
Al and co are WAY outclassed! Looks like the Knight knew it all along. Man he's going to be a tough one.
Yes, and his friends with him. They’re not only powerful, but prepared and organised.
Thats just not right. Those people AG saved, setting up that and changing thier ways. It just seems so wrong to me.
I never said it was right. I just thought it was a new and different way of responding to abduction. By the way, Erich von Daniken really IS building what he calls a “Themepark of the Gods” somewhere in that area.
Shazara Pel did WHAT to Falcon? *Reads further*
He wears the wings he’s got to be prepared for the ritual challenges.
HAHA! Classic Vish scene with the girls.
Classic? You mean this has happened before?
Bravo on Mad Wendy and Yurt. Perfect scene!I love how they played off each other.
They seemed like a good match.
I loved the battle! Ebony's line, the appearence of SPOILER, it was excellent!
I’m glad you enjoyed it. I wanted to give the politicking plotline a proper payoff before the last race.
Xander's team is such a Defenders. Man I want more of Wendy and Yurt!
She may well drop in to see him if he’s hanging with the JBH.
Interesting that G-Eyed and CSFB didnt return. Wonder what is up with that?
See next issue.
Nice clearification on the Shaggoth. It can be confusing.
Indeed. I thought it was worth a footnote.
I want to note that one of the undead was the Devil Doctor and another was Mailman.
That wasn’t in my mind as I wrote it, but there’s no reason for it not to be.
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Dancer writes: Okay, I admit this was a surprise. You do that sometimes!
Boy, I'm glad I e-mailed you about last issue now !
Okay, first on the tactic, I hope it works. Its getting noticable that we have such a deidcated core few these days writing and replying, and the rest not. And I know Im one of the rest when it comes to replying too. Im sorry guys. Your stuff is just brillaint, and i should take the time to get online more and tell you. I have excuses but theyre not good enough. Sorry.
HH replies: No problem. I know you’re not online at home and have restrictions at work. Anybody who has to walk or bike six miles to the nearest internet library and still keeps coming up with great stories probably gets a special dispensation in my book.
And IW, dont get too fed up. Especially dont leave. If you walked then i'd have to walk in support and I dont want to have to. So dont. Okay??
Anyway, I hope it all works out to the good. It better :-/
Indeed.
So to the story, which as ssual was disgustingly well written and another blow to my own pretentions as a writer
People have got to stop seeing this as a competition or a race. You write some of the funniest humour on the board, and when you do dip into the serious it’s always stunning.
Didnt hurt that Dancer was in this one either.
She was overdue. In the original six-parter she’d have been around in half the chapters.
Okay, I like that we got to see the whole religious things addressed, and obviously I loved Donar coming in at the end (and the Shoggoth). Its nice that Yo planned all this and dealt with the situation.
As I think I said I a spoiler at some point, it’s always a mistake to underestimate Yo.
Loved the Bavarian tourist scene too. Heh!
I was thinking of Hausberg, which I’m sure you’ll remember.
I wish we could have placed some kind of webcam in Vizh's room when he read the slave girl scene. You just cant buy that kind of entertainment. Of course Vizh is the perfect person to dump these poor girls on. Now I w2ant Vizh to do a tie-in story (on top of all his other stories, natch!) that shows what happens next when he comes out of the bathroom. or have you already got that covered? Either way, we wants more, we does!!
There’s no reason Vizh shouldn’t follow up if he wants to. The next time we see him he’s already on the fourth leg. Who knows what might have happened in-between?
It says something for the pace and energy of tha chaprter than Xander with the Yurt and Mad Wendy wasnt the main action! But it was nice to see that bunch finally do their stuff, and Wendy and the Yurt wandering off as a team... eeek!
Eek indeed. But not an immediate eek.
I was surprised about Nitz powers but it makes sense now I think about it.
I hope Nitz doesn’t mind the limitation. We’ll be seeing the way round it later.
And for next time: DO NOT HURT THE LITTLE CLAYHOG PEOPLE OR I WILL GET YOU! You have been warned. in front of witnesses.
I don’t believe in surrendering to terror threats. It’s always a bad idea.
Anyway, keep up the good work, dont get discouraged, and feel free to make Vizh's life much much more complicated.
I’ll see what I can do.
Sarah
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Killer Shrike writes: Hello,
Hello Mike, and thanks for the reply. I'll probably aggregate all the comments and post 'em with my responses so folks don't miss out on the backchat, so let me know if you'd prefer me not to do that with yours.
As always, I greatly enjoyed the latest Untold Tales. The introduction where the heroes debated the idea of making off with some of the alien technology was a nice moral debate (though I think a lot more could have been said on the pro side). The fight between the religious leader was fun too, especially Donar’s arrival and subsequent dialogue.
One of the reasons I didn't send Epitome on this junket is that I don't think he'd have kept to that no-tech rule. I needed some reason though why all of Earth society isn't completely altered by this very significant First Contact.
The bit with the Bavarians seeking to profit from their abduction was inspired too.
It seems like one of the possible odd responses that might happen from such an event. AG disapproves of them.
So now Visionary has ten green skinned women pining for him? Life isn’t fair.
Well, we can always look forward to the nine of them meeting the tenth, can't we?
And Asil. And Kerry.
As much as I enjoyed Shazara Pel’s return, didn’t she just cost Earth the Challenge? I thought if contestants got into a fight on the Gameship their planet was forfeit, and Falcon seemed about ready to beat down the Pigeon Lady.
We'll be clarifying Pel's status later, but her challenge of Falc was more in the lines of two cats sharing a house than a mortal death-feud. After all, he's the only winged warrior the Earth team has, and Pel probably feels she needs to establish her superiority. At the moment Pel probably counts as part of the Earth retinue, like Dr Blargelslarch and Yo, so she can fight any of the Earth crew she feels she needs to.
The stuff with the Hellraisers was good. Looking forward to seeing the two teams finally meet.
Me too.
Lastly, I hope this experiment works the way you want it to. I don’t really like the idea, but I understand why it’s being done. It is really bothersome to use someone’s creation and not get any feedback, especially if you know they’re reading it. And if a person can spend 15 minutes reading a story, they can spend 15 seconds to find a way to reply to it.
I have some qualms myself. I'm crossing my fingers.
___
Jason writes: That story makes for great comedy. I especially liked the way Yo kept the mood fun and gameshow-like even as a battle was underway, and Donar's theatrical entrance. And you kind of knew the Shoggoth was going to be trouble once released (though I'm a little surprised he showed up after being splattered in the earlier scene).
Ah, you need to check the last paragraph of the footnote. The Shoggoth biomass splatted by the Chain Knight is the LL's "regular" Shoggoth, the one separated off from the rest of himself because of the contamination by mundane matter. The Shoggoth that responded to Ebony was the "main" Shoggoth, who is bigger and stronger anyway, and who usually dwells in his cyclopean lair in the Antarctic.
Also, I don't know if you did this purposely, but the Chain Knight subplot seems to be following the path of the later Hellraiser movies (though it is a logical course, so...), or at least Pinhead's path.
It's coincidence. As I said, I haven't yet seen any of the Hellraiser movies. I think I may have read a Barker book that covered some of the material - the Books of Blood. "The body is a book of blood- whenever it's opened its red."
And now for the usual message board related whining:
As you already know I'm going to be gone from Tuesday (26th) to Sunday (31st) this coming week. With this situation coming to a head, two usual "posting days" (Wed and next Sat) possibly being skipped, and the lack of my replies over the next week, I'm a little afraid now that I'll return and find that the board has already shut down in my absence, and I'll have no idea where everyone has gone (not to mention the possibility that off-board discussion could fill this email box).
In order to keep the off-board discussion to a minimum I propose to prepare a kind of digest of comments and my responses (including this one if that's okay with you) and log it on the board at some suitable point. I don't expect the board to have shut down, and I don't expect there to be any lessening of stories posted there.
That also leaves me with other worries I mentioned in the chat room before: I can't help but wonder if perhaps something about the way the message board software is designed discourages people (maybe it behaves badly or lacks some features people are expecting), or maybe it's my own attitude or reputation contributing to it somehow. But that's an argument for another time.
I don't think too many people are deterred by limited-length subject lines. I once worried that people might be less likely to reply because the reply box was on a seperate page to the story (and therefore one more screen away) but that's been the case for a long time now and we seem to have survived. I really don't think there's any way we can blame you for folks electing not to respond. I'll keep trying to find a way, but so far I've got nothing.
In the mean time, I do have a story post prepared for today but after this I'm feeling a bit discouraged, because I'm almost sure that everyone who either reads this or notices the lack of UT post on the board won't come back today to read mine anyhow. It'll just be depressing to see my post floating there in magenta all by itself for 3 days until I leave.
Or perhaps they'll decide to read your story because they've got some extra time and find they like it better than what they came looking for? I don't see why you shouldn't garner at least your usual level of responses and comments, which has been gradually increasing as the series progresses anyway. I encourage you to post it. I wasn't calling for a general veto of the board, you know!
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Visionary writes: Okay, I cut AG's address out of the carbon copy list, since he said he didn't want his inbox overflowing with responses, so if any body else would like out of any e-mail exchanges in regards to this, let me know and I'll keep from spamming you too.
I'm likewise concerned about this, so I'll be preparing these responses into a digest for the board (unless folks ask me not to).
Now, as to the technical problems, the only one I had was due (I think) to my mailbox being unable to completely understand the font you're using. As a result, every quotation mark and apostrophy was replaced by a string of characters instead. I ended up pasting it to word and doing a "find/replace" on the various combinations until I could read it easily. Still, I was very impressed by the layout of the email.... Looked very snazzy, what with the graphics and the message down the side as a separate article.
I have no idea how that happened. All I did was prepare the usual webpage and attach it to a standard e-mail. It may be that your browser hates you.
Now, on to the story... I too liked the opening scene where they discuss the possibilites of expanding Earth's sciences and technologies through the opportunities the Transworld meetings offer. And I was especially glad to hear that despite this, Uhuna straight-away went looking for cures. Poor Amy... not only did Uhuna have all the advantages of being a Princess, she doesn't even have the disadvantages of being self-absorbed.
I wanted to include at least one scene where the ramifications of insterstellar contact were considered. So often our comic-book heroes go off into space and Tony Stark doesn't even get a new patent out of it.
The Chain Knight fight went about as well as could be expected. Speaking of Uhuna, she was seriously frightened... not that I blame her, mind you. I suppose she's overcome Temporary Death herself a time or two... but permanent death is another thing.
Yes, I think we've found an Uhunalura weakspot. It'll be fun when the Chain Knight comes after her specifically.
BTW, did we know TD's name was Tricia before? I can't remember, but I like it anyway.
I guess that just like some Earth teenagers like to dress in black and wear too much mascara and call themselves Nosferata and Velveta, Temporary Death likes to wear flowery dresses sometimes and call herself Tricia.
Nice to see the townsfolk recovering from their "ordeal". Nothing like the end of a quaint little village in favor of another tourist trap in the world. The effects of the challenge are as insidious as Walmarts'.
They're even now contacting Roni Y. Avis.
I bet Pigeon is going to be jealous. And Garrick too. Really, anybody who likes to sucker-punch Falcon.
Women with wings seem to like fighting Falc. Makes you wonder about Garrick, doesn't it?
So as I was saying, I hardly ever find my bedroom overflowing with beautiful women. Usually, it's just laundry waiting to be done. A very funny scene, and one that I too hope you're going to build on. But knowing how much is going on as well, I'm not holding out hope for anything long or involved (unless CSFB writes the continuation, in which case it's definitely a good thing that Scott's off the mailing list). I figure you definitely have a plan for dealing with them, as I don't think they'll fit in my suitcase for the ride home. Hopefully the plan doesn't include the Shoggoth eating me when he finds out I have slaves.
I won't be addressing this one much until the finale and epilogue, so there's plenty of time for you to pen something as Sarah so helpfully suggests. In the Epilogue we have the problems caused by the girls moving into Vizh's room at the Lair Mansion, with subsequent reactions from other people who are resident and visitors, some of whom may occur to you.
Oh, and you probably didn't want to see me reading it Sarah, as I had just rolled out of bed and had a robe, flannel boxers and a t-shirt on, topped off by what my family so kindly dubbed as "chicken-hair". Well, okay... maybe you would have gotten a kick out of seeing that... but you don't need any blackmail material to hold over me. You have enough over Ian, apparently.
What she doesn't have she can always make up.
Xander's little plan was pretty scary... but then I guess we haven't even scratched the surface of scary yet with all that's coming. I could actually use a footnote on Mad Wendy again, as what she does exactly is always a bit fuzzy to me. But she and the Yurt make a cute couple, so I think I'll safely leave her off my Vizh romance survey.
Mad Wendy's a high-end telepath with the ability to mould reality into her dreams. She creates little worlds for herself, full of monsters and fairy tales, and any people she happens to have dragged into her mind. So far nobody's found upper limits for her power.
As for romance interests, I don't think she's ever dated anybody but Space Ghost.
The showdown of the gods (and priests) was great, and I just about cheered when Dancer, Lisa and Donar showed up. That one definitely caught me by surprise, as I didn't think we'd be crossing paths with them until the very end of the story. It was fun seeing Nitz and Ebony take on some major league villains with no powers at their disposal, and yet overcome that handicap through their cleverness. Or, in Nitz's case, a helmet.
It was time to bring Lisa & Co back into the mix. So now we have three more "support crew", but with a very specific mission in mind; or which more next time.
Oh, and I too agree with Sarah about Clan Clayhog's "fate". That's not a good word to throw around this long before a happy ending can be reached...
Clan Klayhog are doing fine. See them riding their broken-down old haulage ship off into the final leg, waving to their friends the Lair Legion, poor but proud in their bright red shirts. And their seeress Yesmin is close to becoming a mother too...
Excellent story, and I'm very glad I got my replies in to make the cut, as Saturdays are depressing without my Untold Tales fix.
Way to turn on the pressure.
> Take care, oh... and Hello to all the folks I don't normally e-mail! Sorry... I'm very bad at letter writing.
So some good's come out of this protest anyway.
___
> Ah, you need to check the last paragraph of the footnote.
Jason writes: I never read the footnotes. It's like watching a "making of" video after a movie.
They’re usually meant to be optional, but I do try and keep things clear in there so that folks don’t have to be expert PV trivia buffs to get the nuances.
> As I said, I haven't yet seen any of the Hellraiser movies. I think I may have read a Barker book that covered some of the material - the Books of Blood. "The body is a book of blood- whenever it's opened its red."
It is kind of a natural path for someone looking for power.
Well the Chain Knight is certainly seeking that. He and his comrades were beaten once before, and they don’t intend to make the same mistakes twice.
I don't mind, though I have no idea how to make a digest with this rather simple mail client.
Well I just cut everything into Word and did it there.
I'm hoping the board survives for longer than five days, but at the same time it surprised and shocked me how dead the board became after UT #180 wasn't posted (see below for more on that) and Caption The Pic was relocated. Now I fear, and I don't know if it's justified, that I'll return on the 31st and see the board as it is today, and wonder if it closed in my absence.
I don’t think you need have any worries on that count. But I hope people will realise that neglect of an interactive community will inevitably lead to the decline and fall of that community eventually. If people value the board then they have to accord it some attention.
That reminds me, you can tell Sarah that when I return I'm going to continue looking into email posting and subscription (an daily email that tells you what's been posted in the last day or so). It's not something that'll be immediate, but I'm looking into it. And the post-by-email thing will have to be something that works periodically (like emails sent will be posted once every 3 to 6 hours) because the server load would be too heavy if the software is always checking for emails. I'm also going to see if I can make it so the email notification thing (that tells you when someone replied to your post) can allow you to reply via email.
And yes, I stole all those ideas from Livejournal.
They sound like excellent features.
> I encourage you to post [your story]. I wasn't calling for a general veto of the board, you know!
I probably will, I just worried that when people check the board at noon and realize there's no Untold Tales today they may not return. Then the day I leave my story will still be sitting there with no replies, and possibly even when I return, if people suspect something is wrong. I hope that doesn't happen.
I’ve already replied. So that’s alright.
Anyway, keep writing, because I don't want to see the current Untold Tales arc end unfinished. I did that with a fanfic series of mine, and I still wish I had finished it.
Noted.
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HH before > One of the reasons I didn't send Epitome on this junket is that I don't think he'd have kept to that no-tech rule. I needed some reason though why all of Earth society isn't completely altered by this very significant First Contact.
KS: I agree with that. One of the things Epitome would like to do is get the monopoly of super science away from the metahumans and into the hands of right thinking citizens.
And only in the definition of right thinking citizens may people's mileage vary.
>The bit with the Bavarians seeking to profit from their abduction was inspired too.
> It seemed like one of the possible odd responses that might happen from such an event. AG disapproves of them.
Only seems fair, after all, the town of Roswell, New Mexico has profited from fake UFO landings for nearly 50 years.
Mr Epitome has inside information?
> Well, we can always look forward to the nine of them meeting the tenth, can't we?
> And Asil. And Kerry.
OK, now maybe I feel a bit more sympathy for his predicament.
Strange, because that was the part Dancer was specially looking forward to.
One last thought, in the chat last night you mentioned a project about Avengers fan-fiction. Can you tell us any more about it?
I was asked to be part of a new fan-fiction project that would take the end of the current Avengers run as a starting point for a divergent Marvel Universe, on the basis of a limited-series outline I did a while back. I don’t know much about what is going to happen, or when, but I’ll mention it when I know.
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Jason wrote:
> IW: Well the Chain Knight is certainly seeking that. He and his comrades were beaten once before, and they don’t intend to make the same mistakes twice.
Yes, this time they need to make entirely new mistakes.
Indeed. They've already made at least one major one.
> I don’t think you need have any worries on that count. But I hope people will realise that neglect of an interactive community will inevitably lead to the decline and fall of that community eventually. If people value the board then they have to accord it some attention.
True, I'd just rather not have it decline and fall in 5 days.
We'll try and make sure you’re here for the closing ceremony.
And hopefully the rain-soaked Keiko will attract more attention. I feel like a TV network exec during sweeps week.
Well, the shower scene, the cast regular death, the ongoing mystery all fit the pattern. You were only lacking a celebrity guest shot. I guess Wolverine wanted too high a fee.
From Chris (Shoggoth) Leeson: I was rather expecting the Shoggoth to dive down a Chymeric Gate with everyone else. Timing it so that if the Chain Knight was following, he would meet A Great Old One (or equivalent).
There was one in-story and one out-of-story reason for doing that.
We've shown that the Shoggoth can't usually enter the realms of Death, even Temporary Death, by nature of being undying and utterly outside the system. He only got in this time because that bit of him is contiminated with mundane matter. So if the Shoggoth can't usually get there, it's reasonable to assume the chymeric gate thing wouldn't work as a mean of entrance or egress.
Out-of-story, I think its better drama not to let the Shoggoth easily blink himself of other folks out of danger. Teleporting during combat is G-Eyed's shtick. AG can do something similar by passing through his multiversal subplane but only in deep space, so as not to "compete" with G-Eyed. I generally assume that when the Shoggoth travels through his gates they take a while to set up - making them less than useful in combat - and that travel through them takes some time, at least to mortal perceptions (just before they go raving insane). Factor in the additional dangers of encounters on the journey and I think they become "game-balanced" to stop being a get-out-of-jail-free card too often.
Still, I'm sure the Shoggoth has noted that the enveloping manoeuvre isn't effective against this adversary, and is planning a more... internal form of attack next time round.
Poor Visionary. what happens if the Shoggoth finds out he has some slaves.
Will he be able to explain in time.
That's a very interesting question which you or Vizh are welcome to pursue, or that I will pick up before the arc ends otherwise. I'll forward you some further info on this via separate e-mail.
I loved the theological discussion. Almost pythonesque.
No dead parrots were harmed in the making of this chapter.
I have copied the notes at the end and am going to incorporate them with the Writers Notes that I am currently compiling at work. Hopefully they should be finished fairly soon, work and inspiration permitting.
Splendid. They'll be a useful addition.
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Jason writes:
>>> IW before: Well the Chain Knight is certainly seeking that. He and his comrades were beaten once before, and they don’t intend to make the same mistakes twice.
>> Jason before: Yes, this time they need to make entirely new mistakes.
> IW before: Indeed. They've already made at least one major one.
Maybe two, because I think it was an extraordinarily bad idea for them to make themselves known to the LL so quickly.
They’re moving from their secrecy phase now. After all, Xander is aware of them, the Hood is aware of them, Sorceress is aware of them, Keiko is about to become aware of them. But so far most of them only know of the Chain Knight, not the others, and very few suspect they’re being sponsored by some even bigger, even nastier baddies with the power of the Resolution Prophecy harnessed to them.
> We'll try and make sure you’re here for the closing ceremony [of the board].
I'm still hoping there isn't one.
Right now we’re seeing a spurt of stories from folks eager to smooth over any humps. Or maybe they were just going to post them anyway. Either way, we appear to be surviving.
> You were only lacking a celebrity guest shot. I guess Wolverine wanted too high a fee.
There is a celebrity that appeared a short while ago, a musician named Alison Stewart. She'll return again at some point.
Unless she’s bald and commands the Enterprise I’m not sure she counts as a big-name guest star.
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Hatman wrote: I have to say that Visionary's new "friends" remind me a little of the Visionary Vixens, his sidekicks waaaay back when in the sidekick saga. Nice to see the old reflexes of running and hiding from them are still there. I noticed that he somehow did escape from them for the gladiatorial bout.
I reckon that if he tells them to “sit and stay” that’s what they’ll do. I hope he remembers to tell them they can take bathroom breaks though.
Bringing in Donar as a ringer in the competition was great. Every time I see the "Come and have a go if thou thinkest thou art hard enough" it's still great. As it's often said, never understimate Yo.
It seemed like a very Yo thing to do. And Donar would have been terribly upset if there was a war of the gods and he wasn’t invited.
I'm hoping the "fate" of the Clayhog is a nice one. I really didn't care for the reference again to their red uniforms...
But you know characters like that don’t get put into these kind of stories because they’re going to have a good time, right?
The Yurt and Mad Wendy make for an interesting pairing. Immense psionic power coupled with immense physical power, neither of which properly restrained. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if for some reason someone turned them against each other.
Noted.
I assume that Hatman is fully recovered from his injuries in the third leg? There was no mention of them so I assume with some help from Uhuna and other means he's hale and hearty again?
I’m guessing so. Plus I figure Jay isn’t the sort to stay recovering in bed when everybody else is knocking themselves out to fix up the ship.
Good job Ian. Looking forward to the next.
Thanks. Me too.
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Jason, on posting and responses: Here's the idea: Start posting the Saturday post on Tuesday, and the Wednesday post on Friday for a while. BUT...the people who have been replying get, via email, the Saturday post on Saturday and the Wednesday post on Wednesday. Or maybe resume the normal posting schedule, but regular commenters get a copy a day or two before. Sort of an incentive program for those who are paying attention.
I used to do that long ago to reward people who visited my web site and left comments long ago when I was doing fanfic, I even had a mailing list I named "Blonde Fiction". It worked, at least for a little while (then my entire audience disappeared and I'm still not sure why).
That way you can give regulars special status and not have to feel bad when other posters come out of the woodwork and post to the board that you're not being fair.
AG: see the advantages but what would that do to the replies/back and forth
banter from those who get a preview copy?
Jason: They would have a choice whether to speak via email or wait till it's
posted to the board. Or both.
Hatman: The main problem I see with that is that those who did not receive the e-mailed copy of the last chapter already feel left out as a result it would seem. Continuing a favoritism system, while maybe valid, would only alienate further. No, hopefully the point has been made and maybe we'll see some results.
IW: I agree with Jay. I don’t think a two-tier system would work, and it would be more divisive for the board than people not replying. But thanks for the suggestions.
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AG replies:
> IW previously: They're in this very thread, and I keep updating the page.
You do? So I need to keep checking it cuase a conversation is in that post and no one knows about it.
Indeed. In fact my reply to your e-mail has now been folded in here, for archive purposes.
> What, they're not allowed to cash in on being the famous "abduction village"? You don't want an invite to the grand opening of the Amazing Guy Exhibit?
What exhibit?
The Glorious Exploits Of Our Saviour Amazing Guy Exhibit, with animatronic AG and a chance to see re-enactments of the adventure every half hour.
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